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January 18th, 2008

Don’t believe the low bit-rate ‘HD’ lie

Posted by George Ou @ 3:57 am

Categories: Infrastructure, Networking, News, Apple, Microsoft, Consumer electronics

Tags: Video, Blu-ray, Mbps, HD, Corporate Communications, Hd Dvd, Marketing, Personal Technology, DVD, Home Entertainment

In Focus » See more posts on: MacWorld

Update 6:00PM - Here’s what fake HD video looks like.

Last week at CES, Comcast announced their “HD” video on demand download service over its future DOCSIS 3.0 that allows 4 minute downloads of entire HD movies.  Attendees at MacWorld this week were told that disk-based HD formats like HD DVD and Blu-ray are essentially obsolete because you can simply download “HD” movies from your Apple TV 2.0 box on demand.  Microsoft started offering HD downloads for the XBOX360 starting in late 2006.  You can even watch “HD” videos from ABC right from the web.  There are even YouTube competitors that offer user uploaded “HD” content.  There’s just one minor little problem, it’s not HD.

As I’ve tried to educate my readers last year with my blog “Why HD movie downloads are a big lie“, these so-called HD movies use very low bit-rates compared to even standard definition DVDs let alone something like HD DVD or Blu-ray DVD.  Raw uncompressed 1080p video at 60 frames per second is about 3000 mbps so even HD DVD’s 28 mbps needs to be compressed about 107 to 1 with the H.264 or VC-1 codec.  By all reasonable standards this needs to be the minimum bit-rate for acceptable loss in quality on 1080p video.

Updated 4:30PM - Standard definition 480i DVD movies are typically 5 to 8 mbps (megabits per second) MPEG-2 whereas these so-called HD wannabes weigh in at a pathetic 1.5 to 4 mbps of 720p H.264.  Apple’s new HD service is capable of 4 mbps which simply isn’t enough to be considered HD.  XBOX360 downloads are 6.8 mbps 720p VC-1 so they’re semi-decent borderline HD.  Marketing will push the nicer sounding “720p” aspect of the video but they don’t tell you it’s way too compressed to offer good video fidelity.  Blu-ray has a maximum bit-rate of 40 mbps while HD DVD offers a maximum of 28 mbps.  Over the air broadcasts can be up to 24 19.38 mbps.

Modern video compression codecs like H.264 or VC-1 can hide these compression artifact problems much better than MPEG-2 video compression but there’s only so much it can do.  At best you might get away 50% more compression over older compression technology but 1.5 to 4 mbps H.264 will not be better than 8 mbps MPEG-2 under most video complexity requirements.  The only time 4 mbps 720p will look better than 8 mbps 480i is when the video on the screen is almost entirely stationary or it’s a low-complexity video such as animation movies.  Under most normal circumstances, the low bit-rate 720p so-called “HD” video will be inferior though many companies are betting that consumers won’t know any better. 

So the bottom line is that so-called “HD” video from Microsoft’s XBOX360 HD download service and Apple’s new Apple TV service or any other web download service is simply not HD by any respectable definition.  These companies cannot and should not use the “HD” name with video that is lower fidelity than standard DVD.  As for Comcast, there’s not much detail on it but I highly doubt it’s more than 4 to 8 mbps even on DOCSIS 3.0 because its 160 mbps total capacity is divided between 50 to 400 customers.  Only FiOS technology with its massive 620 mbps per 32-user capacity and possibly U-Verse (but slower than real time) has sufficient last-mile capacity to deliver true HD movie downloads at the quality of HD DVD and Blu-ray technology.

I’m not saying that you shouldn’t buy these services from Apple, or other services that offer low bit-rate 720p video downloads, but consumers must be aware of the fact that they’re slightly worse than a 1080p up-converted DVD.  Microsoft’s XBOX service is border-line HD that is slightly better than DVD but nowhere near 1080i over-the-air HD broadcast quality.

George Ou is Technical Director of ZDNet. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 153 Talkback(s)
Verizon offers full HD Video on Demand over their FiOS data
Verizon offers full HD Video on Demand over their FiOS data connection with 15 Mbps MPEG-2 streams. FiOS TV utilizes a seprate wavelength of light to deliver 2.4 Gbps GPON to your home on top of the ... (Read the rest)
Posted by: georgeou Posted on: 04/07/08 You are currently: Logged In as: a Guest  | Login | Terms of Use
What IS HD?  Otwoh | 01/18/08
Technically true but...  cornpie | 01/18/08
they do?  LDCMobile | 01/18/08
Wrong, broadcast services are usually 1080i or 720p  georgeou | 01/18/08
Not so  frank_s | 01/18/08
Huh?  gary@... | 02/19/08
Most people don't see it.  hulse_kevin | 01/18/08
Most viewers are still watching ...  mwagner@...ZDNet Moderator | 01/18/08
You're wrong about that 17" computer monitor  georgeou | 01/18/08
Where I disagree with this article  threedaysdwn | 01/19/08
The industry would like you to believe there is a 2 to 1 advantage  georgeou | 01/19/08
I don't care what codec you use, you can't get around the low bit-rate limi  georgeou | 01/18/08
+1  toadlife | 01/18/08
George is 100% right  wackoae | 01/19/08
Your nuts  IUseComputers | 01/28/08
It's well known that the PSNR is at best 1.5x better for H.264  georgeou | 02/04/08
4 mbps H.264 may be better  wingc@... | 02/05/08
Lack of Understanding or Understanding Lack ?  pobstar1@... | 01/18/08
Thanks, well said  georgeou | 01/18/08
Fallowing You on that for sure.  pobstar1@... | 01/18/08
AI?  richvball44 | 01/19/08
I'm proud of my 50" Pansonic plasma  Knorthern Knight | 01/18/08
HD uses  Schnazzer | 01/18/08
Why Pay Comcast  notsofast | 01/18/08
What is "peak power"?  kd5auq | 01/18/08
Marketing, Never Trust Marketing  codeguy007 | 01/18/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  bdick@... | 01/18/08
ATSC vs. DVB-t  NetArch. | 01/18/08
Sorry, will correct it  georgeou | 01/18/08
Maybe they just mean 16x9  Michael Kelly | 01/18/08
No, they can't tell that either because these new TVs stretch the signal  georgeou | 01/18/08
Good point (nt)  Michael Kelly | 01/18/08
That's True  carrilion | 01/21/08
Not exactly  FirstNLastN | 01/18/08
It's not a 2 to 1 advantage  georgeou | 01/18/08
(nt)Hope you didn't delete the mpeg2 originals  toadlife | 01/18/08
You're talking recompression  CobraA1 | 01/19/08
... continued  FirstNLastN | 01/18/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  aitor_ibarra | 01/18/08
Math error  VersatileSimplicity | 01/18/08
Bits or Bytes, check your math  georgeou | 01/18/08
I don't know about your assumptions  public@... | 01/20/08
720p should be higher bit-rate than DVD to be acceptable  georgeou | 01/18/08
Wrong  crashuk@... | 01/19/08
Takes slightly more storage, but not twice as much  georgeou | 01/19/08
Now who actually offers 1080p?  LDCMobile | 01/18/08
1080p = 1080i (sometimes)  Cyraxote | 01/18/08
no, it depends on the signal  ramarc | 01/18/08
1080i = 540  whcressall@... | 01/18/08
That is incorrect  threedaysdwn | 01/19/08
Phenomena is plural; don't watch sports.  lysdexia | 01/28/08
There's some WMV9 material in 1080p  bulk@... | 01/18/08
Blu-ray is 40 mbps 1080p, ATSC HD broadcast is 19 mbps 1080i  georgeou | 01/18/08
What about 720p ATSC?  Michael Kelly | 01/18/08
The total signal is the same 19.2 megabits  Knorthern Knight | 01/18/08
Actually, 720p allows for lower compression ratios  georgeou | 01/18/08
Real HDTV  Knorthern Knight | 01/18/08
Setting the bar too low  Knorthern Knight | 01/18/08
Thanks for the link!  georgeou | 01/18/08
You're right on the money, George  SteveMak | 01/18/08
A few questions  itpro_z | 01/18/08
Probably not compression  RocketEater | 01/18/08
I really don't understand...  MalumRegnat\ | 01/18/08
HD broadcasts are different from downloads or streaming on demand  georgeou | 01/18/08
Point is that you won't be happy with 4 mbps 720p  georgeou | 01/18/08
Dumb Question: What about the trailers on apple.com?  roystonlodge | 01/18/08
Sometimes they offer really short clips that are 8 mbps  georgeou | 01/18/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  mikepaul | 01/18/08
Someone missed the point completely  georgeou | 01/18/08
Hmmm  Skullet | 01/18/08
Verizon offers 15 mbps HD video streaming on demand  georgeou | 01/18/08
I think your missing the point George.  Skullet | 01/18/08
This is not spliting hairs, I'm telling you bit-rate is a limiting factor  georgeou | 01/18/08
Thanks for muddying the waters a little more  Vurbal@... | 01/18/08
3 to 1 advantage is BS  georgeou | 01/18/08
And the resolution issue?  Vurbal@... | 01/18/08
Over compressed high resolution looks like low resolution  georgeou | 01/18/08
That's not what you wrote  Vurbal@... | 01/18/08
Actually, overcompressed HD does look a lot like SD upconverted  georgeou | 01/19/08
George is fairly wrong, because...  CowLauncher | 01/18/08
High Resolution with low bit-rate equals low fidelity  georgeou | 01/18/08
That's a misconception George...  CowLauncher | 01/18/08
You're fooling yourself if you think you can get good HD at low bit-rates  georgeou | 01/18/08
Have watched any George?  CowLauncher | 01/18/08
I've watched quite a bit, and it's fake HD  georgeou | 01/18/08
Problem is . . .  CobraA1 | 01/19/08
Here you go:  CobraA1 | 01/19/08
You're right, and you can see the difference on a 19" LCD  georgeou | 01/19/08
I know the difference between bits and bytes...  aitor_ibarra | 01/18/08
720p at half the bit-rate is lower fidelity than 480i  georgeou | 01/18/08
bit rate not only key factor though...  aitor_ibarra | 01/18/08
It's not the only factor, but it's a limiting factor  georgeou | 01/18/08
Ya'll are a little Cynical: What this really means is...  stormculture | 01/18/08
HD "ought" to be better than DVD  georgeou | 01/18/08
Eh, you're both right.  JTrack3d | 01/18/08
The 4 minute claim is nonsense to begin with.  georgeou | 01/18/08
I agree with you!  aitor_ibarra | 01/18/08
8mbps 720p VC-1 or MPEG4-AVC/H.264 is decent.  georgeou | 01/18/08
1.5mbits/sec  aitor_ibarra | 01/18/08
The ABC stuff is 1.5 mbps or lower 720p video  georgeou | 01/18/08
What a good compressionist can do with 2Mbit/sec  aitor_ibarra | 01/18/08
Animations don't count as video  georgeou | 01/18/08
Yup, Elephant's Dream isn't Citizen Kane  aitor_ibarra | 01/18/08
It's a lot worse than my DVDs  georgeou | 01/18/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  MC_z | 01/18/08
Pundits vs. Firsthand Experience  hulse_kevin | 01/18/08
My experience with 360 720p movies was good  dhavleak@... | 01/18/08
7GB per movie means high bitrate  aitor_ibarra | 01/18/08
I rounded off to 8  georgeou | 01/18/08
I updated for XBOX360  georgeou | 01/18/08
good stuff..  dhavleak@... | 01/18/08
Updated note about XBOX360 - nt  georgeou | 01/18/08
The Internet is DC node stuff  BALTHOR | 01/18/08
Anen  vicw926a4@... | 01/18/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  christopher.j@... | 01/18/08
You're looking for multicasting  Knorthern Knight | 01/18/08
Costs Of LIVE8 Scenario?  christopher.j@... | 01/19/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  rodfrank@... | 01/18/08
Bit-rate is a HUGE factor  georgeou | 01/18/08
Yes Sheep  codeguy007 | 01/18/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  domlanic@... | 01/18/08
Same marketing nonsense, Flash still uses video compression technology  georgeou | 01/18/08
HD LIE  domlanic@... | 01/18/08
Doesn't even take regulation, just a few stiff fines here and there will do  georgeou | 01/18/08
George is right!  ballmerclone2@... | 01/18/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  bcroner | 01/18/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  nori.anand@... | 01/18/08
Beware of George Ou and don't believe his articles!  Grayson Peddie | 01/18/08
TechExec2?  thetruthhurts | 01/19/08
Your point isn't entirely off, but your math sure is.  photo@... | 01/19/08
WRONG, you're assuming the extra bit-rate is wasted on those repeat frame  georgeou | 01/19/08
Sigh...  threedaysdwn | 01/19/08
Upscaling by itself isn't a good thing, but starting with double bit-rate  georgeou | 01/19/08
The solution  skris88@... | 01/19/08
BT is similar to multicasting in the sense that it takes load off server  georgeou | 01/20/08
But I agree with you that the word HD shouldn't be abused  georgeou | 01/20/08
******** Title  oxytotem@... | 01/20/08
Xbox 360 hd downloads  d0x360@... | 01/20/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  duanedeen@... | 01/20/08
I feel sorry for you George  mankydonut@... | 01/20/08
Would be nice to have an HD basic, standard, full label  georgeou | 01/20/08
Informative, nothing else needs to be said. (NT)  ju1ce | 01/20/08
DVDs are undercompressed in the first place  Knocks | 01/20/08
Lower bit-rates are fine for people who steal the content  georgeou | 01/20/08
The algorithms used are very clever...  Mikael_z | 01/23/08
Or you can just rent your HD Netflix  georgeou | 01/23/08
Depends on where you draw the line  Mikael_z | 01/24/08
Wireless Communications, Networking and Mobile Computing  wxm0907@... | 01/20/08
Symposium on Information System & Management  wxm0907@... | 01/20/08
back to DVD  _JimB_ | 01/23/08
It is HD this article is BS  puggsly | 02/19/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  skellener@... | 02/19/08
Verizon offers full HD Video on Demand over their FiOS data  georgeou | 04/07/08

What do you think?

74 Trackbacks

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  • Don’t believe the low bit-rate ‘HD’ lie
    » Don’t believe the low bit-rate ‘HD’ lie | George Ou | ZDNet.com This is obviously for Franny. Geoprge Ou is a bit of a tool but it is a valid point. The reason I am posting it is like Tedesco I think in the immediate future there will ...

    Trackback by Cincinnati Sports Forums - Reds, Bengals, UC Bearcats and Xavier — January 18, 2008 @ 1:10 pm

  • Don’t believe the low bit-rate ‘HD’ lie
    I know we often talk about this topic, and this guy seems to know his stuff - Don’t believe the low bit-rate ‘HD’ lie Posted by George Ou @ 3:57 am Last week at CES, Comcast announced their “HD” video on demand download service over its ...

    Trackback by PreGameLobby — January 18, 2008 @ 3:51 pm

  • Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie
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    Trackback by Sirdvd — January 18, 2008 @ 5:15 pm

  • links for 2008-01-18
    Don’t believe the low bit-rate ‘HD’ lie | George Ou | ZDNet.com. George Ou points out that "HD" download services from Apple and Microsoft are nothing of the sort, delivering quality that's actually below DVD. He's not wrong. ...

    Trackback by Technovia — January 18, 2008 @ 7:19 pm

  • The HD Conspiracy: Apple, Microsoft, YouTube Make False Video ...
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  • And you wondered why people are so confused about HD
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    Trackback by Anonymous — January 19, 2008 @ 3:02 am

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    Trackback by Engadget HD — January 19, 2008 @ 4:37 pm

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    Trackback by AVS Forum - Home Theater Computers — January 19, 2008 @ 5:00 pm

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  • HD Downloads Are Pretty Much Lies? [Sad]
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    Trackback by Anonymous — January 20, 2008 @ 3:01 am

  • archive.dailypicture.net
    we haven't even started on issues of sound. Don't expect Blu-ray's successful fallback of classic, uncompressed PCM to make its way into streaming HD. So just how much will we see from that extra $1 in Apple TV download, anyway? A dollar's worth? [zdnet via engadgethd]

    Trackback by Anonymous — January 20, 2008 @ 3:02 am

  • TechSpot: News and Views for PC Technology Enthusiasts, Gamers and IT Pros
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    Trackback by Anonymous — January 20, 2008 @ 3:02 am

  • HD Stream will be weak
    from source to target to reproduce this type of experience. All this talk about HD-DVD or Blu-Ray being obsolete as streaming is the future are stating a truth that does not yet exist. It seems I am not the only one as there are others voicing the same concerns. Just like how people market lies about HDMI, it seems they are marketing resolution and not what is lost, like audio fidelity and color saturation. Come on now, if you invested thousands of dollars in HD gear for both audio and video, you expect the

    Trackback by Anonymous — January 20, 2008 @ 3:02 am

  • HD Downloads Are Pretty Much Lies? [Sad]
    we haven't even started on issues of sound. Don't expect Blu-ray's successful fallback of classic, uncompressed PCM to make its way into streaming HD. So just how much will we see from that extra $1 in Apple TV download, anyway? A dollar's worth? [zdnet via engadgethd]

    Trackback by Anonymous — January 20, 2008 @ 3:02 am

  • Technovia
    Don’t believe the low bit-rate ‘HD’ lie | George Ou | ZDNet.com

    Trackback by Anonymous — January 20, 2008 @ 3:02 am

  • links for 2008-01-18
    Don’t believe the low bit-rate ‘HD’ lie | George Ou | ZDNet.com

    Trackback by Anonymous — January 20, 2008 @ 3:02 am

  • HD Downloads Are Pretty Much Lies? [Sad]
    t expect Blu-ray’s successful fallback of classic, uncompressed PCM to make its way into streaming HD. So just how much will we see from that extra $1 in Apple TV download, anyway? A dollar’s worth? [zdnet via engadgethd] From: Gizmodo: Apple

    Trackback by Anonymous — January 20, 2008 @ 3:02 am

  • HD Downloads Are Pretty Much Lies? [Sad]
    we haven't even started on issues of sound. Don't expect Blu-ray's successful fallback of classic, uncompressed PCM to make its way into streaming HD. So just how much will we see from that extra $1 in Apple TV download, anyway? A dollar's worth? [zdnet via engadgethd]

    Trackback by Anonymous — January 20, 2008 @ 3:02 am

  • links for 2008-01-18
    Don’t believe the low bit-rate ‘HD’ lie | George Ou | ZDNet.com

    Trackback by Anonymous — January 20, 2008 @ 3:02 am

  • HD Downloads Are Pretty Much Lies? [Sad]
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  • Don’t believe the low bit-rate HD’ lie
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  • Don’t Believe the Low Bit-Rate ‘HD’ Lie
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    Trackback by x360ME - Microsoft Xbox 360 News - Middle East — January 20, 2008 @ 8:56 am

  • HD Downloads Are Pretty Much Lies?
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    Trackback by PSHS - WVC (ILOILO) Computer Science Department — January 20, 2008 @ 1:00 pm

  • Don't Believe the Low Bit-Rate 'HD' Lie
    As I've tried to educate my readers last year with my blog "Why HD movie downloads are a big lie", these so-called HD movies [from on-demand download services] use very low bit-rates compared to even standard definition DVDs let alone ...

    Trackback by DCEmu Forums:: The Homebrew & Gaming Network :: PSP Dreamcast Nintendo DS Wii GP2X Xbox 360 GBA Gamecube PS2 Apple iPhone Forums - Xbox 360 News Forum — January 20, 2008 @ 1:11 pm

  • HD Downloads From iTunes
    It’s Sunday afternoon here in jolly (but exhausted) old England. I just caught a post by George Ou at ZDNET called “Don’t believe the low bit-rate ‘HD’ lie. It’s right on the money about the reality of downloading HD content as proposed ...

    Trackback by Clearing My Head — January 20, 2008 @ 2:57 pm

  • Don't believe the hype
    ...http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=959. DO NOT WANT...

    Trackback by Anonymous — January 21, 2008 @ 3:02 am

  • Don't buy into the HD downloads lie: There is no such thing as low...
    [link][more]

    Trackback by Anonymous — January 21, 2008 @ 3:02 am

  • HD download service isn’t really HD
    From ZDNet Blogs: “Last week at CES, Comcast announced their “HD” video on demand download service over its future DOCSIS 3.0 that allows 4 minute downloads of entire HD movies. Attendees at MacWorld this week were told that disk-based HD formats like HD DVD and

    Trackback by Anonymous — January 21, 2008 @ 3:02 am

  • 360 News Blog
    From ZDNet Blogs: “Last week at CES, Comcast announced their “HD” video on demand download service over its future DOCSIS 3.0 that allows 4 minute downloads of entire HD movies.  Attendees at MacWorld this week were told that disk-based HD formats like HD DVD

    Trackback by Anonymous — January 21, 2008 @ 3:02 am

  • Random Digest » Ry
    we haven't even started on issues of sound. Don't expect Blu-ray's successful fallback of classic, uncompressed PCM to make its way into streaming HD. So just how much will we see from that extra $1 in Apple TV download, anyway? A dollar's worth? [zdnet via engadgethd]

    Trackback by Anonymous — January 21, 2008 @ 3:02 am

  • Don’t Believe the Low Bit-Rate ‘HD’ Lie
    aspect of the video but they don't tell you it's way too compressed to offer good video fidelity. Blu-ray has a maximum bit-rate of 40 mbps while HD DVD offers a maximum of 28 mbps. Over the air broadcasts can be up to 19.38 mbps. http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=959

    Trackback by Anonymous — January 21, 2008 @ 3:02 am

  • Xbox Live's HD downloads not really HD quality.
    George Ou blogs over at ZDnet with the technical details on these so called "HD" movies from download services such as Xbox Live and iTunes. Here is the skinny:. "Standard definition 480i DVD movies are typically 5 to 8 mbps (megabits ...

    Trackback by Funtownarcade — January 21, 2008 @ 8:07 am

  • » Don’t believe the low bit-rate ‘HD’ lie | George Ou | ZDNet.com
    Last week at CES, Comcast announced their “HD” video on demand download service over its future DOCSIS 3.0 that allows 4 minute downloads of entire HD movies. Attendees at MacWorld this week were told that disk-based HD formats like HD ...

    Trackback by Tech News Daily — January 21, 2008 @ 10:00 am

  • A confusão dos bitrates HD
    Quando até "profissionais" atiram coisas destas para o ar, vê-se bem a confusão que anda por aí. Em primeiro lugar, não se podem comparar bit rates de codecs diferentes, tal como o Mpeg2 usado nos DVDs "antigos" (e ainda usado nalguns ...

    Trackback by Aberto até de Madrugada — January 21, 2008 @ 10:20 am

  • HD Downloads... so where's the High Definition?
    A few days ago I decided to try out Microsoft's High Definition movie rental service out on the Xbox 360. It's a relatively new service (for us in the UK anyway) and there are only 25 movies up there to choose from, which I'm guessing ...

    Trackback by The Recursion King — January 21, 2008 @ 11:20 am

  • Don't Believe the Low Bit-Rate 'HD' Lie
    As I've tried to educate my readers last year with my blog "Why HD movie downloads are a big lie", these so-called HD movies [from on-demand download services] use very low bit-rates compared to even standard definition DVDs let alone ...

    Trackback by xbox360india..The Best Xbox360 India Blog...All latest Happening Here... — January 21, 2008 @ 12:28 pm

  • There's More to HD Than Bit Rates and Resolution
    Over on EngadgetHD I've been having a discussion about bit rates with George Ou of ZDNet. George argues that unless the content you are watching is at least 28 mbps 1080p, it's "fake HD". Nevermind that the HD spec. includes resolutions ...

    Trackback by Digital Home Thoughts.com — January 21, 2008 @ 2:00 pm

  • snapshot 1/21/08
    iPhone spurs Web traff